Lyall Cresswell: 0:03

I want to know that that individual is real and they're not passing themselves off for whatever reason. The whole area of digital ID and, and verification, we, we are dealing with it for businesses which is obviously a degree more complicated than for individuals and consumers. But you can see that it's, it's a pretty important area if we are to continue to have such reliance and faith and confidence in the digital platforms that we use

Tom Raftery: 0:34

Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, wherever you are in the world. This is the Digital Supply Chain Podcast, the number one podcast focusing on the digitization of supply chain, and I'm your host, Tom Raftery. Hi everyone and welcome to episode 372 of the Digital Supply Chain Podcast. My name is Tom Raftery and it's fantastic to have you join us today as we dive into the most current and exciting developments in the supply chain world. To all of this podcast's wonderful supporters, I can't express my gratitude enough. Your involvement and backing are the lifelines that keep this podcast going. And for those who haven't yet joined our supporter community, here's your chance to be part of something special. Supporting the Digital Supply Chain Podcast is easy and budget friendly with options starting from just three euros or dollars a month. That's less than the cost of your daily cuppa. This modest contribution can significantly impact my ability to continue delivering top quality content. To join, simply click on the support link in the show notes of this or any episode or head over to tinyurl. com slash dscpod. Now, without further ado, I'd like to introduce my special guest today, Lyall. Lyall, welcome to the podcast. Would you like to introduce yourself?

Lyall Cresswell: 1:55

Hi Tom. Thanks for having me on your show. I'm Lyle Cresswell. I'm the CEO and founder of a digital freight tech business Transport Exchange Group. We operate a marketplace here in the UK and also across Europe and the US, which services the transport and logistics businesses that you probably see out on your travels every day. At the moment we have about eight and a half thousand operators active on our platform. And I'm not sure if you are familiar with the whole concept of B2B digital marketplaces, but they're using our platform to improve the efficiency of their businesses and also the scope of business that they're able to undertake on behalf of their clients. They're trading capacity and loads on our platform. And we then offer the whole order execution within the platform so that both parties who are, who are working together have complete visibility of where their freight is at any given time. So, that's been up and running Tom for 23 years. We started just after the.com crash if you remember that,

Tom Raftery: 3:06

Indeed

Lyall Cresswell: 3:07

ago now. And in the past four years born out of the need that we saw in Transport Exchange Group we've created a second standalone platform called Trustd. And that deals with the digital identity and verification and compliance of transport and logistics businesses that are operating both on the platform and also elsewhere in the industry.

Tom Raftery: 3:33

Okay. And why

Lyall Cresswell: 3:37

Oh, why?

Tom Raftery: 3:38

why? why, why, why? I guess, two, two questions. Why did you set up Transport Exchange Group particularly? You know, just after the , the.com bomb. Uh, And why Trustd?

Lyall Cresswell: 3:51

Sure, sure. So I'd, I'd had a, a previous business which was operating in that industry and I was keen to do something that married together both tech, and also marketplaces, which I've always been you know, a great interest of mine. So the opportunity arose to create a B2B marketplace. And I say that quite deliberately because at that point there was a huge number of initiatives aiming to improve B2B, procurement and collaboration. Especially not just in freight transport, but across the board. And given my background in, in that industry and the, the understanding that I have of it it seemed like a natural fit to, to do that. So, I'm aware that maybe many of your, many of your listeners aren't necessarily immersed in our, in our world. But just to describe it for you, transport and logistics is obviously it's a huge industry but it's also very, very fragmented. So you'll be aware of the household names that you see running their trucks and vans up and down the roads all day. But you may be less aware that there are thousands and tens of thousands of smaller businesses, many of whom are operating less than four or five vehicles. And they form the backbone of the industry. There's a lot of sub contraction that takes place in the market. A lot of sharing of assets and especially with the kind of sustainability agenda driving increased collaboration to reduce empty running. And to make sure that as far as possible businesses are operating in the most efficient way possible. You can see that there's a, that there's a tremendous need for, for a platform like ours, which fosters collaboration, reduces empty miles and also makes the whole process when businesses transact with one another more efficient and have less friction.

Tom Raftery: 5:48

And is that the problem you set out to fix back in 2000 when you kicked off Transport Exchange group?

Lyall Cresswell: 5:55

Yes, it really was. What's interesting is we've obviously the, the platform has, has grown hugely in sophistication, if you like, and also the depth of what it offers to the businesses that are on the platform.

Tom Raftery: 6:06

Mm-Hmm.

Lyall Cresswell: 6:07

The goal. I guess, remains the same as it was back in you know, 2000, 2001 which is to, to have a, a properly managed marketplace platform to provide some kind of, you know, standard operating procedure, for those businesses to, to work to. And yeah, we, we, we've, we've stuck to our knitting. If if I can use that that analogy.

Tom Raftery: 6:30

Okay.. And then you decided four years ago to set up Trustd, which you've just launched this year. So you've spent the last three, four years getting it ready for launch. I guess, what was the thinking behind Trustd and, uh, you know, how, how has it evolved since launch? If it has.

Lyall Cresswell: 6:51

Yes. So as with all of these things you set off and you don't realize how complicated they're gonna be especially in an emergent area, such as ID, I'll go into that in, in a little bit later, but so, so just to give you the backdrop here, Tom.

Tom Raftery: 7:07

Sure.

Lyall Cresswell: 7:07

Ever since we started, we recognized, I'm going back 23 years ago when trust and safety was in, in digital marketplace, was was certainly wasn't a a recognized area of expertise or even requirement. But we saw that as being intrinsic to the value of our platform. So, from, from the get go with transport exchange group, we always requested documents such as insurance certificates anything that we could ask our, our, our clients, the transportation companies the, the, the logistics service providers, anything that we could ask of them to prove that they were qualified that they were competent. And therefore we could, you know, let'em into the marketplace and let them participate in our, in our program.

Tom Raftery: 7:52

Sure.

Lyall Cresswell: 7:53

And I remember actually very early on, you know, some of the businesses were like, well, why do you need our insurances and this, that, and the other? But obviously there was, you know, there was an understanding that if you, you're gonna run a professional marketplace you've got to know who your, who the businesses are that are on your platform. It's obvious now. So that's fine, but the complexity of even the smallest business, it's quite astounding because we're, we're dealing here with businesses. We're not dealing with consumer, which is hard enough in, in itself. We're dealing with businesses. So if I paint a picture that an owner driver or a two truck, or a three truck, or three van courier company, a haulage company still has probably or should have vehicle insurance suitable for carrying freight or certainly for carrying goods, for hire and reward. They should have a freight liability policy or goods in transit. They should have public liability insurance. There's also the substantiating that their business is bonafide. Many of them, or most of them are, are VAT registered. So, an owner driver should have a, a driving license clearly. We want to know about their vehicle. So you, you, you, you start to see that on the face of it looks like a very, very simple, straightforward business actually has a degree of complexity to it. Now all of those data points are going outta date, continuously. Insurances generally will get renewed annually. Driving licenses, it's not such a kind of frequent expiry, but they still expire. Vehicles have MOTs. So you can see that if you want to actually create a fully compliant platform where you really understand that the participants are fit and, and, and, and bonafide to operate you need a digital process to do this. It's impossible to do it manually, And that's where Trustd is born from.

Tom Raftery: 9:52

just, just Lyall for our American listeners. An MOT, I'm, I'm not sure if they use the same terminology in the US.

Lyall Cresswell: 10:02

No they don't. They will have service inspections, but that's, that's an annual check, which is carried out on the vehicle to make sure that it's roadworthy and fit the purpose. And indeed, we, we, we, we, we've got American customers as well, US customers and Canadian customers. So, I'll, I'll, I'll come back to that if I may Tom in a little bit. So what's, what was fascinating as we were, we, so we digitalized or we set out to fully digitalize, this data and to make sure that it was always current and up to date. Now what I then saw probably for the first time, I'm guessing about five or so years ago was the first emergent digital ID checks. So here in the UK, but it's the same in the, in, in, in other jurisdictions in Europe and in the in, in the US. We have various different corporate registries, which are a matter of public record. Here in the UK we have companies house which is transparent, but it's been you know, it doesn't have much in the way in, in terms of checks and balances. That's something that the, the, the government are addressing at this moment. But what I saw was quite interesting was the ability to actually check that the key individuals in a business were who they said they were. So I don't know if Tom, have you opened a bank account to a new bank account recently at all?

Tom Raftery: 11:57

The start of the year. Yeah.

Lyall Cresswell: 11:59

Yeah. So, it's likely, I dunno who you bank with, but it's likely that, first of all, you didn't go into a branch, I'm assuming you did it online.

Tom Raftery: 12:07

No, I actually went into a branch

Lyall Cresswell: 12:09

You went into a branch, okay, fine. So you're now, you're now in the minority in so far as you actually found a branch. But that's, that's increasingly rare to be frank. And what I saw in the FinTech industry was an emergent technology, which allowed you to prove remotely that a person, a natural person, was who they said they were. Those digital identity checks, which generally consist of a selfie, which you take on your mobile phone and a liveness check, and other checks which are then carried out in the background allow you to confirm that a natural person is who they say they are without actually meeting them in present. So I saw that setting up various different bank accounts and I said, look, this would be fantastic if we can actually marry together this new technology of identity service providers with the corporate data, which we, which we can obtain about the business. Marry that then together with all of the documentation, which we were already requesting from those businesses, as I've just described. And we can actually create a very, very holistic profile of the business and the key individuals within that business. And by being able to do that, I saw that we could make especially the Transport Exchange Group platform much more robust in terms of security, trust amongst our, amongst and between our member businesses. Because remember, they very, very rarely ever meet the other parties that they're trading with. It's, you know, we live in an increasingly remote and digitalized environment. So there has to be a lot of trust placed in, in both ourselves as Transport Exchange Group. We've proven that over 23 years, you know, we're still here, we're still doing the same things. We've, we've stuck to the same kind of mission statement and values. But as I say, you need to bring in the new technologies to be able to keep the platform as secure as possible. So I saw, I saw all these things taking place and set out really to bring all these technologies together in order to create something really kind of fairly, truly remarkable in our industry and, and keep those, moreover, keep those profiles up to date.

Tom Raftery: 14:29

Okay, so you set up Trustd, which is a a new business, adjacent to Transport Exchange Group, which allows, is it just drivers or is it more than that to actually certify who they are?

Lyall Cresswell: 14:50

Yes. So you've actually asked a fantastic question there which is on both sides of the equation, whether you are a buyer or a seller in our marketplace or in our industry it's as important for myself. Let's say I'm, you know, I could be an owner driver, I could be a hundred truck operator providing capacity to your business, Tom.

Tom Raftery: 15:12

Sure.

Lyall Cresswell: 15:13

You are a third party logistics operator, for example. It's as important for me to understand that you are, who you say you are, and that you have all of the correct accreditations as it is for you to credential me as a driver or a provider of the assets. So we have very, very definitely set out to perform the checks and the compliance angle as well for all participants. And what we're trying to do there is to create a very, very fair and transparent approach to verification and compliance, which is industry-wide.

Tom Raftery: 15:49

And why set it up as a separate entity? Why not keep it, you know, within trusted exchange or Transport Exchange Group? Sorry.

Lyall Cresswell: 15:58

Okay, so, for start, so what we've done is with Trustd is we built it in a completely new tech stack. That was important.

Tom Raftery: 16:06

Right.

Lyall Cresswell: 16:07

We fully integrated it with Transport Exchange Group and we're now just starting to bring in some new product areas which build on the profiles that, you know, our, our, our users have created in Trustd. I'll come onto to those in a second. But we were quite keen to, to keep it separate to, to Transport Exchange Group. One of the things that we are now able to offer is that the businesses that have gone through and adhere to the Trustd framework are able to actually port that digital identity and verification. Wherever they so choose to do it.'cause obviously they will have relationships and customers who are outside of the Transport Exchange Group platform as well. So we have spent a lot of time making that digital identity for me and my business to be portable and shareable. So that's one of the key reasons why we've, why, why we've kept them separate.

Tom Raftery: 17:05

Sure, sure, sure. That makes sense. And what, what does it enable, I mean, apart from you being able to certify that I am who I say I am, and I being able to certify that you are who you say you are, what are the risks of not having it?

Lyall Cresswell: 17:27

Yeah, so we see the digital identity, and verification, and the compliance as being table stakes. Now there are, there are plenty of accreditation schemes in transport and logistics, so we're not purporting to, to be an accreditation scheme in that, in that sense. In fact, we're, we're quite capable and, and happy to incorporate those in to the Trustd profile that you may hold. One area where we have a lot of insight into is being able to take that trusted profile, remember it's fully digital, and then apply it in a transactional sense. So unfortunately in this day and age, as I say relationships are generally speaking, especially in transport and logistics, which is a fairly transactional type of, of, of industry. It's quite important for a lot of shippers, especially for beneficial cargo owners and shippers to actually have 100% security when it comes to who's carrying their freight. And in an increasingly kind of diverse ecosystem, it's not that uncommon for there to be a number of carriers and a number of participants who actually manage the freight. Depending on what kind of movement we're talking about from, from door to door especially in networks networks of networks first mile, middle Mile, last Mile, I think you, you know, you're familiar with all of those. So what Trustd now is, has, has done, and we've just done a proof of concept with a major 3PL only a couple of weeks ago, is to leverage the digital identity that we've created for me and my business. Extend that to the driver pool and actually start using especially the kind of digital ID and the biometric authentication, of the carrier and a driver, and apply it so that when Tom Rafferty goes to, to collect a consignment, we can have a hundred percent security and knowingness if you like, that you are who you say you are. Especially those kind of key points when freight is handed over, sorry, the, the collection of a consignment the entry into a, into a depot, or into a warehouse or into an RDC. There are so many areas where we can actually improve the, the security within the supply chain or within the transport supply chain that we've, that we're focused on. We're only actually even just starting to kind of uncover all of the use cases for that. And what we're doing there is we're protecting not just the shipper. I think that's really important to, to, to spell this out. But we're also protecting the carrier and the driver,

Tom Raftery: 20:09

Okay.

Lyall Cresswell: 20:09

because it's pretty important, as I say, for them to know who they're transacting with. So yeah, this, these are the, the kind of areas where we can actually, bring more value to all of these stakeholders in that ecosystem are fairly significant.

Tom Raftery: 20:27

Okay. And is there a lot of fraud or issues in the system, or is this a solution looking for a problem?

Lyall Cresswell: 20:36

Well, if um, talking now to your American, to your US listeners, in the US it's an increasingly large problem. That's for sure. Because I'm not sure if you're familiar, but with the whole concept of double brokering travel brokering even that's a fairly, fairly sizable and growing issue in the US. In the UK talking specific to the UK we certainly perceive a need born out of our experience with Transport Exchange Group to in, you know, in introduce better visibility about who's carrying my freight. And who am I? Who, who am I dealing with? Who am I transacting with? Do you remember that I mentioned just you know, a couple of minutes ago that we were talking about Companies House here in the UK.

Tom Raftery: 21:20

Yep.

Lyall Cresswell: 21:21

So, are you f have you been following the, the whole saga with Companies House and the way that it's, uh,

Tom Raftery: 21:27

I have not, I, I've been following a lot of stories over the uk, including Suella Braverman, but I haven't been following Companies House, no.

Lyall Cresswell: 21:34

Okay. Right. So Companies House when you incorporate, but they have the same thing in the US with individual Secretary of States. And in Europe of course they have various various different ways of approaching this using chambers of commerce and such like. Talking specifically in the UK here we have a government organization which is Companies House where you go and register a corporation. So one of the, one of the significant problems in the huge area of of fraud actually in the UK has been the absolutely minimal checks that are carried out to date when you go and incorporate a new business here in the UK. Unfortunately it's, it's, it's wide open to abuse. And this was shown up during the whole Covid saga when we had very, very, you know, very, very short term solution, which were these bounce back loans.

Tom Raftery: 22:26

Yeah.

Lyall Cresswell: 22:26

I'm not sure if you're familiar with

Tom Raftery: 22:27

Yeah. Yeah.

Lyall Cresswell: 22:28

You had all these, all these companies, which hadn't traded or didn't exist before, and they were able to go and set up businesses literally online for a few dollars, a few pounds. And apply totally fraudulently for, for, for, for those loans which were brought in to try and, you know, mitigate the effect of, of of lockdown during Covid. So, this has really come to the fore in the UK over the past few months. And they're making, they're making some attempts now to address that. You have the same thing, by the way, in the US. So, the F-M-C-S-A, which is the regulator for the transportation industry in the u in the US has not been adhering to its own rules. So, you can't, you're not allowed to, to, to create or to get a motor carrier license with, with a PO box address. But you, but people have been, yeah, they've been setting up businesses from offshore locations purely, purely designed to, to, to commit fraud. So where you've got regulators that aren't doing their jobs or doing them very poorly and are really not protecting the industry in the way that they should do, a business, a private business like Trustd, which has very altruistic, goals. At the end of the day we are here to, we're here to raise the bar. We're here to make sure participants in our industry are who they say they are at all times. You can see that we, we we're bringing just that, you know, a significant enhancement step change to our approach to, to, you know, trust and safety at the end of the day.

Tom Raftery: 24:07

Sure, sure. And from a practical perspective, Lyall, how does it work? I mean, if I wanted to get a Trustd id, if that's what it's called, I'm not sure how, how you called it a Trustd profile. Trustd id, Trustd, whatever it is. How do I go about getting it?

Lyall Cresswell: 24:24

So it's a, it's a, it's a purely digital process which we then assist with on an exceptional basis. If somebody has trouble passing through the passing through the steps and, it's very much driven by the persona of, of who you and your business are. So we have a number of different journeys through the platform. So you can go in as, for example, going right, really to the smallest types of businesses that Trustd deals with. So, you can be a driver with a vehicle, therefore you should have different types of insurances. So we, we set out upfront the, the, the data that you're going to be putting into the platform. You may or may not be VAT registered and you'll go through the process. We identify at a very early stage what type of business you are, and depending upon the answer that you give there. You're set off on one of these journeys. We will then ask for your if you are incorporated as a, as a as a business, we'll then ask for your identifying number. So here in the UK it would be your Companies House registration number. In the US it could be for your motor carrier or your DOT number, which are pretty much mandatory in the US. Likewise for Europe. Go off to the, to, to the source of those datas, which tends to be, as I say the government database or government databases. And then we will step into verifying the directors of those businesses. So we are marrying together, me and my business. And of course you might have multiple directors as well in a business which is reasonably commonplace. So, at the end of the day, we end up, as I say, with this very, very holistic profile which is fully digital. And verified.

Tom Raftery: 26:15

And for things like insurance or driver's licenses, I mean, for someone who's handy with Photoshop, what's to stop them from, you know, altering some details on a, on a driver's license, for example?

Lyall Cresswell: 26:28

Yes. So, the tech actually will detect fraudulent driving licenses in particular. And, that's, that's, that's the same as by the way you have with, with you know, a digital signup for a bank, for example. And we're working with best of breed providers in that space. The bit, which is actually really quite interesting, alongside that of course, is the verification of me, the natural person.

Tom Raftery: 26:52

Okay.

Lyall Cresswell: 26:53

You know, and that's it. That's, you know, the, the, the, the tech in that area is always, always striving to keep ahead of where the , you know, where the alternative, where the fraud is in that. What we are doing though is quite interesting because we're asking for different data points as well. So a lot of those data points can be correlated to one another to understand as far as possible am I a bonafide business? Am I a bonafide person attached to that business.

Tom Raftery: 27:26

Okay. Fair enough. And do you have any success stories you can talk to?

Lyall Cresswell: 27:33

Yeah. I just mentioned a proof of concept that we did a couple of weeks ago, which was fabulous actually. It was something that we built earlier in the summer and in this POC. We one of, one of the, one of the businesses on Transport Exchange Group. We posted this on LinkedIn actually, so it's in the public domain. One of the carriers who really likes what they see with Trustd and can see you know, how it's beneficial for our industry. They were already as a business verified by Trustd. They ran their their drivers through Trustd. So all of their drivers in this, in this test verified by Trustd as well. And we've developed a solution which we call Check-in. And very simply put when the driver arrived at a depot. It was 3PL, a well-known household name 3PL. They had already had a load assigned to specific drivers, such that when they arrived at the depot to come and collect that load. We had put the Trustd app onto an iPad. So not proprietary kit at all. This is all software, no hardware required at all or no specialist hardware. And literally they were able to verify that they were the correct driver who has signed to collect that load specific load by simply punching in the consignment number, and doing the biometric authentication and authorization, in the app on the, on the iPad. So in that particular instance, the driver had no requirement. They didn't need an app or anything like that. They had literally been allocated to collect a consignment. And upon arrival they did the biometric authentication and authorization based on the data points which had been pre preassigned to them. And we were able to say yes, but you know. John Smith is here to collect that collect that load. And then of course, what we can also do as well is tie that up to the vehicle. So you can see that there are all these different data points which we can bring together to give the highest level of assurance that the, that the individual, that the natural person presenting themselves at that point is who they say they are, and moreover that they've been authorized to perform that task.

Tom Raftery: 30:00

Okay. Very good. Very good. And where to next? I mean, we see in the kind of the security space, there's a movement away from passwords towards pass keys, for example, in the digital identity space. You know, where do you see the next 3, 4, 5 years bringing you of what, what's coming down the line that you think is interesting and going to be impacting, Trustd, and Trustd's customers?

Lyall Cresswell: 30:28

And that's a really great question. And I think it's actually much sooner than three to four years because the background to this is digital identity has been hovering around for, for quite a number of years now. But it's only just starting to I guess, become an everyday occurrence. And not always very obviously. And the reason I say that is more and more of us are now using contactless payments on our phones. We don't, we don't tend to think of that as digital identity, but in fact, it is. It's, it's the act of, of of, of paying with your identity as proven by your apple or your droid device. So, if I turn that into a real case scenario as far as Trustd goes I've already mentioned the fact that we can actually, you know, evidence that we are the correct driver in that particular instance or the correct carrier the authorized carrier come to collect or deliver that consignment, especially upon the collection. Um, And there are some very secure supply chains that you're probably aware of, where that's pretty important to know, not just a squiggle on a, you know, on a, on a hardened device or something like that where, who the hell knows who you were, right. And actually talking about proving that Lyall Cresswell has actually physically met and presented themselves to, to A.N.Other. So, what we're now looking at in Trustd is where can, where can we bring in more use cases to leverage that proven and verified digital identity for me and my business? What's the most obvious one is logging in to the TEG platform, for example. And why is that beneficial? Well, it means I can actually go passwordless, which I think everybody would be, very receptive to. Because the control that gives me over, you know, just a username and a password, even if you've got multifactor authentication in place you can see the benefits there. So, there are some really solid use cases where as I said, you know, Trustd is designed to be a portable digital identity. You can see that you can start to deploy that in, in many, many different use cases and scenarios.

Tom Raftery: 32:38

Cool. Cool. Great. We're coming towards the end of the podcast now, Lyall, is there any question I haven't asked that you wish I had or any aspect of this we haven't touched on that you think it's important for people to be aware of?

, Lyall Cresswell: 32:52

Yeah, I mean, I, I, I guess one of the, one of the interesting things is, the intersection, which I described where digital supply chains meet physical their physical twin and I think that's something that up to now hasn't been, hasn't been dealt with with much success. There are very, very sophisticated digital platforms out there. We, we, we, we all use them all the time. But, you know, until the robots takeover, which I guess depending upon who you talk to, isn't that far away. But you know, we still live in a world where it's important to know who you are dealing with, not just the entity, but also the people behind, and involved with that entity. And I think that's been an area which has been overlooked, and hasn't kept pace with the digitalization of everything that we do. Yeah, You see that in social media. It was fascinating when Elon Musk bought Twitter and if you recall, over a weekend he'd, you know, he, he decided that for a few dollars a month, you were gonna be able to verify yourself and add your blue tick. But that's a, that had, if you think about it, I mean, it took him longer than a, longer than a weekend because it's, it's quite complicated once you get into the details. But if you, you know, social media, which allows people or bots, you know, who are you actually, are you actually communicating with, with a real person? Is it a bot? Are they who they say they are? I, I, I, I think that proving that has fallen way, way behind where the digital environment has got to. And I think that's increasingly important. I want to know who I'm talking to. I want to know that that individual is real and they're not passing themselves off for whatever reason. So the whole area of digital ID and, and verification, we de we, we are dealing with it for businesses which is obviously a degree more complicated than for individuals and consumers. But you can see that it's, it's a pretty important area if we are to continue to have such reliance and faith and confidence in the digital platforms that we use.

Tom Raftery: 35:20

Sure, sure, sure.

Lyall Cresswell: 35:21

And, and, and, and Trustd and Transport Exchange Group is a microcosm of that because what we, what we do, we, you know, our business is around collaboration between, between different entities and you can see that it's, it's a fundamental aspect of, of a success for a platform like that.

Tom Raftery: 35:39

Yep. Yep. No, absolutely. Lyall, if people would like to know more about yourself or any of the things we discussed on the podcast today, where would you have me direct them?

Lyall Cresswell: 35:50

So, we have Transport Exchange Group is that's easy to find. Transport exchange group.com and Trustd, that's without the E, so it's trustd.net. You can Google that as well. And yeah, we, we, we, we, you know, we're at a stage now where we started building and designing Trustd four years ago. It's a work in progress still because there's so much that we want to do with it so much that we can, it, the tech is continually evolving and we're always fascinated to, you know, now once you start to get into production mode with these things as I've got experience with, of course, you start to really understand where you can add value and we're always super keen to hear from people and businesses that are involved in supply chain, how we can improve their business and their operations.

Tom Raftery: 36:41

Great. Great. Fascinating, Lyall, that's been really interesting. Thanks a million for coming on the podcast today.

Lyall Cresswell: 36:47

And thanks for having me on. I've really enjoyed it.

Tom Raftery: 36:50

Okay, thank you all for tuning in to this episode of the Digital Supply Chain Podcast with me, Tom Raftery. Each week, over 3, 000 supply chain professionals listen to this show. If you or your organization want to connect with this dedicated audience, consider becoming a sponsor. You can opt for exclusive episode branding where you choose our guests or a personalized 30 second mid roll ad. It's a unique opportunity to reach industry experts and influencers. For more details, hit me up on Twitter or LinkedIn or drop me an email to tomraftery at outlook. com. Together, let's shape the future of the digital supply chain. Thanks. Catch you all next time.